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帕金森病 Parkinson's disease
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薛传恽:回复68楼 章华  邮箱:xxuuee@gmail.com  IP:210.6.141.66  日期:2012-5-10 [回复71楼]

  回复68楼 章华
  回复68楼 章华:回复63楼 薛传恽
  
  章医生,你好。你所说的内容有一样我不知道。就是Q10可以降低同型半光胺酸的水平。可否介绍点东西给我看。 

章华:回复薛老  邮箱:drdanielcheung@gmail.com  IP:220.246.74.155  日期:2012-5-10 [回复72楼]

  回复薛老
  薛老是个很厉害的人物,稍有不慎就被抓住辫子,哈哈。我在68 楼的原意是这样的(而现在临床应用Q10包括我主要是在防治左旋多巴引起的Hyperhomocysteinemia高水平同型半胱氨酸简称HCY对脑心血管的伤害)。目前有关Q10 HCY及帕金森症的最新研究是意大利的Gorgone G在今年二月发表于NCBI,请薛老过目。可能牵涉到临床上将来在帕症上的治疗也就是说Q10在帕症上的重新应用。Coenzyme Q10, hyperhomocysteinemia and MTHFR C677T polymorphism in levodopa-treated Parkinson’s disease patients.
  Gorgone G, Currò M, Ferlazzo N, Parisi G, Parnetti L, Belcastro V, Tambasco N, Rossi A, Pisani F, Calabresi P, Ientile R, Caccamo D.
  SourceIRCCS Neurolesi Bonino-Pulejo, Messina, Italy.
  
  Abstract
  There is evidence that increased homocysteine (Hcy) levels might accelerate dopaminergic cell death in Parkinson’s disease (PD) through neurotoxic effects. Homocysteine neurotoxicity mainly relies on redox state alterations. The present work was aimed at investigating the relationships between plasma Hcy concentrations and percent content of oxidized versus total Coenzyme Q10 (%CoQ10) in 60 PD patients and 82 healthy subjects. Both groups were screened for plasma levels of Hcy, vitamin B12, folate, %CoQ10 and C677T methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR) gene polymorphism. The MTHFR TT677 mutated genotype was found more frequently in patients than in controls (p = 0.01). In a multivariate analysis, Hcy levels and %CoQ10 were associated with the case/control category (p < 0.0001), MTHFR genotype (p < 0.0001) and their interaction term (p = 0.0015), even after adjusting for age, sex, folate and vitamin B12. Patients carrying the TT677 genotype exhibited the highest values of Hcy and %CoQ10 (p < 0.0001). Structural equation modelling evidenced that the TT677 genotype and levodopa daily dose were independently and directly correlated with Hcy (p < 0.0001, and p = 0.003, respectively), which, in turn, showed a significant correlation (p < 0.0001) with the %CoQ10 in PD patients. Our results suggest that increased Hcy levels act as mediator of the systemic oxidative stress occurring in PD, and %CoQ10 determination might be regarded as a predictor of toxic Hcy effects.
  
  PMID:22354693[PubMed - in process]  

章华:回复薛老  邮箱:drdanielcheung@gmail.com  IP:220.246.74.155  日期:2012-5-10 [回复73楼]

  回复薛老
  还有一个相关的也请阅,由Tina Kaczor,N.D.发表在美国自然疗法医生协会会刊上的文章,虽然Q10的临床试验(我想起了雷沙吉兰)并不令人鼓舞,但可以重新理解一下Q10的临床应用也是有意义的。 

章华:回复薛老  邮箱:drdanielcheung@gmail.com  IP:220.246.74.155  日期:2012-5-10 [回复74楼]

  回复薛老
  Homocysteine, CoQ10, and Parkinson’s Disease3/6/2012
  Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNOStudy investigates possible reasons for the lack of benefit from CoQ10 for patients with Parkinson’s diseaseTuesday, March 06, 2012
  by: Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO
  
  
  
  Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO, is senior medical editor of the Natural Medicine Journal and is also a naturopathic physician, board certified in naturopathic oncology. She received her naturopathic doctorate from National College of Natural Medicine, and completed her residency in naturopathic oncology at Cancer Treatment Centers of America in Tulsa, Okla. Dr. Kaczor received undergraduate degrees from the State University of New York at Buffalo. She is the current treasurer of the Oncology Association of Naturopathic Physicians and secretary of the American Board of Naturopathic Oncology. She has been published in several peer-reviewed journals. Reference
  Gorgone G, Currò M, Ferlazzo N, et al. Coenzyme Q10, hyperhomocysteinemia and MTHFR C677T polymorphism in levodopa-treated Parkinson’s disease patients. Neuromolecular Med. 2012 Feb 22. [Epub ahead of print]
  
  Design
  Prospective case/control study
  
  Participants
  60 patients with an established diagnosis of Parkinson’s disease (PD) and 82 healthy, age- and gender-matched control subjects
  
  Study Parameters
  Circulating levels of homocysteine, vitamin B12, folate, and the ratio of oxidized coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) to total CoQ10 (expressed as %CoQ) were measured in both groups. The presence or absence of C677T methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR) gene polymorphism was also assessed.
  
  Key Findings
  Patients with PD were significantly more likely to have the TT677 MTHFR polymorphism than controls (P=0.01). Patients carrying this genotype had the highest levels of homocysteine as well as oxidized CoQ10 (%CoQ10; P<0.0001). Even after adjusting for age, gender, B12, and folate status, there was an association with higher homocysteine levels and %CoQ10 in the patients with PD vs controls (P<0.0001). Independently, the presence of the TT677 genotype as well as the daily dose of levodopa were directly correlated with homocysteine levels (P<0.0001 and P=0.03 respectively). Lastly, homocysteine had a significant correlation with circulating %CoQ10 in PD subjects (P<0.0001).
  
  Practice Implications
  Homocysteine (Hcy) is a known neurotoxin,1 with presumed toxicity due to oxidative damage to neurons, including the dopaminergic neurons of the substantia nigra. The association between homocysteine levels and circulating oxidized CoQ10 (%CoQ10) has not been looked at previous to this study. Given the strong correlation between homocysteine levels and %CoQ10, the authors suggest that the percentage of oxidized CoQ10 in circulation can act as an assessable marker of intracellular toxic effects of Hcy.
  
  While the association of %CoQ10 is interesting as a research tool, testing of homocysteine is much more practical in a clinical setting. Testing for polymorphisms in the MFTHR genotype may be useful in PD patients with high homocysteine levels; however, as a genotype test, it is of less value than testing its phenotypic implications, such as homocysteine levels themselves. So, from a clinical perspective, testing homocysteine itself is the most appropriate means of assessing its potential contribution to progressive neuronal degeneration in our PD patients.
  
  As a clinician, one cannot help but wonder: If high homocysteine is corrected early in life, can we stall or even prevent the onset of PD altogether in susceptible patients? One would hope that such an extrapolation would hold true. Indeed, such presumptions are made routinely throughout preventative medicine. It is one of the privileges of practicing within a framework of nontoxic interventions. So, for our patients who are at higher risk of PD, such as Vietnam veterans, those exposed to high amounts of pesticides, and those with immediate family members with PD, the above study should affect how aggressively we pursue testing and normalization of homocysteine levels.
  
  But what about the role of CoQ10? This study showed that patients with PD have higher levels of oxidized CoQ10 in systemic circulation. The oxidative process and mitochondrial defects are intertwined and strongly implicated in the pathogenesis of PD.2 As I discussed in a review for this journal in November 2010, several small studies have shown that CoQ10 may be a promising nutritional supplement for PD patients when used at high doses (>1,200 mg/d).3 Unfortunately, what was to be a landmark study on supplemental high-dose CoQ10 in PD was recently halted due to lack of statistically significant benefit of CoQ10 at interim analysis of the data.
  
  The study, called “Effects of coenzyme Q10 (CoQ) in Parkinson disease (QE3),” began recruiting at 68 centers across the United States and Canada in 2008.4 This large phase III trial was to recruit 600 participants into 1 of 3 arms and assess symptoms intermittently over a 16-month period:
  •Arm 1: 1,200 mg/day CoQ10 plus 1,200 IU/day alpha-tocopherol
  •Arm 2: 2,400 mg CoQ10/day plus 1,200 IU/day alpha-tocopherol 1,200 IU
  •Arm 3: placebo group, using 1,200 IU alpha-tocopherol daily
  There are many possible reasons for the lack of benefit from CoQ10 in the QE3 trial, but the above study offers one more possibility. What if the use of supplemental CoQ10 in high doses does not adequately attenuate the neurotoxic effects of high levels of homocysteine? In other words, perhaps the continuous generation of oxidative toxicity within the cells by homocysteine is one means of keeping the oxidation rate high regardless of how much reduced CoQ10 is given. To my knowledge, none of the clinical studies using oral CoQ10 in PD has ever included measuring or normalizing homocysteine levels as part of its design, including the large QE3 study.
  
  
  Perhaps the continuous generation of oxidative toxicity within the cells by homocysteine is one means of keeping the oxidation rate high.
  The pathogenesis of PD is multifactorial, and ample evidence shows oxidative stressors are derived from more than just homocysteine. However, the clear correlation of homocysteine and intracellular oxidation in PD patients begs for further research. One means of determining if homocysteine’s oxidative potential overwhelmed the possible benefits of oral CoQ10 in the QE3 study is to test participants’ blood samples retrospectively for the presence or absence of polymorphisms in the MTHFR gene. Such an analysis would at least answer the question of whether high homocysteine was a confounding factor in the study. While we leave such re-analysis to researchers, the least we can do as clinicians is prioritize normalization of homocysteine levels over the more costly use of high dose CoQ10 in our patients with PD.
  
   

薛传恽:回复40楼 章华  邮箱:xxuuee@gmail.com  IP:210.6.141.66  日期:2012-5-11 [回复75楼]

  回复40楼 章华
  回复40楼 章华:帕金森症的早期治疗
  
  刚刚我又在回头看这一大串的帖子。见到这个帖子。好看!以前没看到。
  是有这样一些讨人嫌的人。大家讨论问题,有道理你就拿出来说。做那些小动作干甚麽。你的回复很精彩。 

新手:回复67楼 小欧  IP:116.232.24.72  日期:2012-5-11 [回复76楼]

  回复67楼 小欧
  回复67楼 小欧:回复
  
  你提到在内地买美国的Vinpocetine 有困难,我在 Source Naturals 上查到International Distributors (国际分销商)包括中国广州,香港也有,
  
  Wonderful Nutrition
  F10 Shop CTS Centre,
  #219 Zongshan Wu Road
  Guangzhou , China
  86-137-11113428
  
  
  Athena Nutrition
  Basement Shop 12
  268 Hennessy Rd.
  Wanchai, Hong Kong
  85-296-770998
  
  
  K. L. Lam Company Limited
  Suite 1925 Argyle Centre
  Phase One, 688 Nathan Rd.
  Kowloon, Hong Kong China
  85-223-983090
  
  
  它也有網址但是我現在貼不上去,我查過了 Vinpocetine 10mg 120 tables 135元人民币。希望可以帮到你。 

小欧:谢谢  IP:59.60.3.198  日期:2012-5-11 [回复77楼]

  谢谢
  谢谢你提供的信息 

薛传恽:回复74楼 章华  邮箱:xxuuee@gmail.com  IP:210.6.141.66  日期:2012-5-11 [回复78楼]

  回复74楼 章华
  回复74楼 章华:回复薛老
  
  章医生,其实我所关心的只是服食CoQ10是否可改善帕金森病,或减少血液中同型半胱氨酸水平。归根结底是帕症病人现在要不要吃CoQ10。如果试验可显示能或者不能。那我就没有问题了。但是上面这两篇文章只涉及了血液中的同型半胱氨酸和%CoQ10。%CoQ10只是 泛醌/(泛醌+泛醇),氧化作用的后果。并没有涉及服用CoQ10的直接效果。
  也许这个问题现在只能是悬案?或者,按我所知,CoQ10对PD没有直接效果。  

章华:帕症的早期治疗  邮箱:drdanielcheung@gmail.com  IP:220.246.74.155  日期:2012-5-12 [回复79楼]

  帕症的早期治疗
  薛老您好,按照循证医学的概念,Q10和HCY&PD没有强有力的关系,我是基于HCY会损害心血管,而Q10可以保护心血管,因而应用Q10,而且成本也不高,基于预防胜于治疗的概念。除了Q10,我想和您探讨一下Lithium(锂剂)在帕症的应用,我目前有部分病人已经在服用,我也在观察反应,我帖上一篇研究报告给您参阅,下次再探讨。这文章是直接和alpha-synuclein异常聚集有关的。(Lithium protects against oxidative stress-mediated cell death in α-synuclein-overexpressing in vitro and in vivo models of Parkinson’s disease.)
  Kim YH, Rane A, Lussier S, Andersen JK.
  SourceBuck Institute for Research on Aging, Novato, California 94945, USA.
  
  Abstract
  Lithium has recently been suggested to have neuroprotective properties in relation to several neurodegenerative diseases. In this study, we examined the potential cytoprotective effect of lithium in preventing oxidative stress-induced protein accumulation and neuronal cell death in the presence of increased α-synuclein levels in vitro and in vivo. Specifically, lithium administration was found to protect against cell death in a hydrogen peroxide-treated, stable α-synuclein-enhanced green fluorescent protein (EGFP)-overexpressing dopaminergic N27 cell line. Lithium feeding (0.255% lithium chloride) of 9-month-old pan-neuronal α-synuclein transgenic mice over a 3-month period was also sufficient to prevent accumulation of oxidized/nitrated α-synuclein as a consequence of chronic paraquat/maneb administration in multiple brain regions, including the glomerular layer, mitral cells, and the granule cell layer of the olfactory bulb (OB), striatum, substantia nigra pars compacta (SNpc) and Purkinje cells of the cerebellum. Lithium not only prevented α-synuclein-mediated protein accumulation/aggregation in these brain regions but also protected neuronal cells including mitral cells and dopaminergic SNpc neurons against oxidative stress-induced neurodegeneration. These results suggest that lithium can prevent both α-synuclein accumulation and neurodegeneration in an animal model of PD, suggesting that this drug, already FDA-approved for use in bipolar disorder, may constitute a novel therapy for another human disease.
  
  Copyright © 2011 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
  
  PMID:21710541[PubMed - in process] PMCID:PMC3154577[Available on 2012/10/1] 

薛传恽:回复79楼 章华  邮箱:xxuuee@gmail.com  IP:210.6.141.66  日期:2012-5-12 [回复80楼]

  回复79楼 章华
  回复79楼 章华:帕症的早期治疗
  
  我一直觉得锂剂要慎用,我没有足够知识便不敢碰他。现在让我再看看你这篇。 

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